|
| Birdy68 | | Thor |  |  | | Reg. Date | : | 16/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,352 | | Location | : | Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland |
|
| | Posted : 15 Oct 2009 - 08:03 Post title : BRITISH CUSTOMS Exhaust System | | | As you may or may not know, our friends over at British Customs have developed an exhaust system for the Thunderbird that involves the elimination of the CAT!
This is not the finished product! The pipe will be available in polished stainless or ceramic black!
It would appear that they have been working around the clock to get them out to those power hungry Bird Riders!
As of this post, NO dyno test figures are available yet - but they should be here soon!
The exhaust system will - as previously mentioned - eliminate the CAT BOX and utilize a Power Commander V to control the tune map.
Here is a direct link to the Triumph Thunderbird PCV information.
Price: around $500 - $600
Here you'll find some responses from BC that address fellow forum posters questions!
| Birdy68
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!
 -x-  -x- 
more info at Fuelly.com
| | Post edited by Birdy68 on 15 Oct 2009 - 16:01 |
|
|
|
| daz | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,686 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 15 Oct 2009 - 15:14 Post title : Re: BRITISH CUSTOMS Exhaust System (Re: Birdy68) | | | Good that you added info on all the pipes Birdy. I will add to the info on the BC pipes for those who haven't read about them at RAT, the tune they are using now is the triumph tors tune which isn't going to take advantage of the pipes with cat bypass. And the power commander for this bike won't be available for some time which they aren't able to estimate. Also, one must consider the fact that the power commander would be needed too which will add another $300 or so to the package because the commander doesn't simply load a proper tune into the bike, it ADDS to the current tune. So you must own a PC to take advantage of the tune. I think i read something about a way to somehow get around that with the PC, but that all remains to be seen. So in a word, nothing is final yet except the hardware itself.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
|
|
|
|
| FTL40 | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 13/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 1,122 | | Location | : | massachusetts, United States |
|
| | Posted : 15 Oct 2009 - 18:42 Post title : Re: BRITISH CUSTOMS Exhaust System (Re: daz) | | | i talked to sean at bc and he said on the dyno the a/f looks pretty good with the triumph tune. of course there will be room for improvement tho. i myself will wait for tuneboy. i am putting thses pipes on with the big bore so i will let you guys know how it feels
| 2010 tbird 1700 silver (fastest color) BC exhaust, BC airbox removal
|
|
|
|
| Thatch | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 24/06/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,655 | | Location | : | Savannah, GA, United States |
|
| | Posted : 15 Oct 2009 - 20:04 Post title : Re: BRITISH CUSTOMS Exhaust System (Re: FTL40) | | | I'll have the same setup as well. I've been in touch with Tuneboy as well. The last I spoke with them (last week) they still hadn't had time with a tbird to know what all was going to be involved in them including support for the bird. They told me that they should know more within 2 weeks (around 1 week from now)
|
|
|
|
| FTL40 | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 13/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 1,122 | | Location | : | massachusetts, United States |
|
| | Posted : 16 Oct 2009 - 03:23 Post title : Re: BRITISH CUSTOMS Exhaust System (Re: Thatch) | | | that sounds good. and tuneboy has it all over the power commander. only issue is if you want a full dyno tune not many places know how to use it
| 2010 tbird 1700 silver (fastest color) BC exhaust, BC airbox removal
|
|
|
|
| Thatch | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/06/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,655 | | Location | : | Savannah, GA, United States |
|
| | Posted : 16 Oct 2009 - 03:48 Post title : Re: BRITISH CUSTOMS Exhaust System (Re: FTL40) | | |
| not many places know how to use it |
|
And that is a big one. No doubt the Tuneboy is more capable than the PC if the tech doesn't know how to use those capabilities it's all for naught. It is certainly a concern for me, but Tuneboy would be my preference.
|
|
|
|
| daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,686 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 16 Oct 2009 - 04:49 Post title : Re: BRITISH CUSTOMS Exhaust System (Re: FTL40) | | | Not so sure it does have the advantage anymore with the PC's option "auto tune" tho. I talked to them about it and apparently it's exactly as the name suggests. The unit detects any changes you make to anything be it air mods or whatever, then it adjusts the tune for the optimum fueling parameters and you then accept it by hitting a button or some such thing and that becomes your tune till you again make changes. No dyno necassary. that can be a huge advantage unless you intend to do one dyno and never again make any changes. the cost for the auto tune option is about that of 1 dyno tune. Unless you are knowledgable enough to use the tune boy and have a laptop to use it, the PC with auto tune seems like a much better option to me even is there are some things you cannot do like up the rev limit and such like the TB can.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
| | Post edited by daz on 16 Oct 2009 - 04:50 |
|
|
|
| Thatch | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/06/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,655 | | Location | : | Savannah, GA, United States |
|
| | Posted : 16 Oct 2009 - 05:30 Post title : Re: BRITISH CUSTOMS Exhaust System (Re: daz) | | | True, but the more research I do on the PC the less interested I am. I've read quite a few negatives. I've yet to read a 'This product is great!" sort of post concerning the PC with auto tune. Granted it is a relatively new model but it's been out long enough for the HDs for there to be some good reviews, but so far I've not found them. If you have please let me know.
|
|
|
|
| KingOfFleece | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 30/09/2009 | | Posts | : | 304 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 16 Oct 2009 - 13:36 Post title : Re: BRITISH CUSTOMS Exhaust System (Re: Thatch) | | | We have been using PC3's on R3's and are happy enough with them. No issues, easy to tune on the dyno, ect. We have two sets of BC pipes ordered for 'Birds and we will go the PC route with them also. I know it's not as complete in some areas a TB but it's plenty enough for us, and there is good local support if needed.
We'll find out soon enough.
We also put BC Preds on am 09 Bonnie-VERY nice pipes.
|
|
|
|
| daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,686 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 16 Oct 2009 - 14:17 Post title : Re: BRITISH CUSTOMS Exhaust System (Re: Thatch) | | | I agree...it's hard to find reviews on them but i will try again and let you know if i do. The TB has it's advantages, but if the auto tune works well, IMO theres no longer a contest. If you are experienced with tuning EFI then maybe the TB is the way to go, tho w/o a dyno i would think it might be uselss in that regard and you would basically be relegated to using tunes others develop and hope that one would fit your particular setup. I will let you know if i find any reviews, and i'll post in some HD forums and see if i get any answers.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
|
|
|
|
| Birdy68 | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,352 | | Location | : | Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland |
|
| | Posted : 16 Oct 2009 - 14:20 Post title : Re: Tune Boy / Power Comander | | | OK - so I know NOTHING about messing around with the EFi maps.
I do know that I'm right in thinking that both units - TuneBoy & Power Commander - influence the computer controlling of the fuel/air etc.
OK, but I now want to know what's the KEY difference between the TB and PC?
So far, from what I've read (in a nut shell):
- PCV does what you want, automatically (sort of thing), but doesn't let you go 'to deep' into the programming of individual steps/positions
- TB does what you want because you TOLD it to, and you can twiddle and fiddle with everything in the programming
Obviously there are hundreds of other features - such as PCV's 'on the fly' map changes etc. but I just want to know how the two BASICALLY differ in their approach to tune the map!
| Birdy68
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!
-x- -x-
more info at Fuelly.com
|
|
|
|
| FTL40 | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 13/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 1,122 | | Location | : | massachusetts, United States |
|
| | Posted : 16 Oct 2009 - 14:52 Post title : Re: Tune Boy / Power Comander (Re: Birdy68) | | | Link
there you go. also wayne at tuneboy puts out more than one map so nwe have options. just a matter of getting it developed for out bikes. also you can check trouble codes and what not with the tuneboy which is real nice off warranty. and it is one less piece of equipments to go wrong. you dont add anything with the tuneboy. guess i am biased because i had the pc on my fathers rocket and it was really not that great. had the dreaded idle issue and what not. the tb fixed that and also fixed the power limiter triumph built in. not sure if triumph limits any power on these bikes in lower gears.
| 2010 tbird 1700 silver (fastest color) BC exhaust, BC airbox removal
|
|
|
|
| daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,686 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 16 Oct 2009 - 15:04 Post title : Re: Tune Boy / Power Comander (Re: Birdy68) | | | You have it right except one thing....the tuneboy actually creates and loads a custom map into ther bike's ECU that you make using a program you've loaded onto a laptop. Once done the laptop is removed. The PC os a unit that you mount to the bike and stays there. It does not change the map you have loaded into the ECU, it ADDS to it. For example, the map may say X amount of fuel, but if it needs more the PC adds that needed amount to the map. So it has it's own maps, but they aren't a complete map but a supplement to the onboard one. The PC also had a dual map feature where you can have two different ones at the flick of a switch. That could be beneficial for if you ever want to remove some mod to get an inspection. Also, hardware wise, the PC is just a computer program you are buying plus a cable to connect the bike to a laptop. the PC is an actual little box you mount to the bike.
So it's a tradeoff....
PC:
no need for laptop
dual map sys
autotune option
many more tech use and know PC
TB:
no unit need be attached
can adjust some things PC can't
cheaper than PC with autotune option
i may be missing some things. But IMO if auto tune works well theres no reason to go with a TB unless you are an experienced tuner and like playing around with it. I know that a lot of people including myself are inclined to mess with things like this too much and i feel if i had a TB i would end up playing with it too much and messing up the tuning and then having to re do it, and just a lot of wasted time riding a bike thats tuned badly and then more wasted time fixing it. Then do it all over again. I think it's better to have something that is automatic if it works.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
|
|
|
|
| daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,686 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 16 Oct 2009 - 15:11 Post title : Re: Tune Boy / Power Comander (Re: FTL40) | | | The fault check thing IS indeed nice. that could be the deal breaker depending on how usefull it is and how easy it is for a non tech to use it. Still, with TB i worry the map i need will not be made or may not be made for a few years. What if for example i use cat bypass when triumph puts one out, plus i mod the airbox in one of several possible ways, plus have the BB. If he doesn't make a map for that exact setup i'm screwed or if he does i may have to wait a few years. So it's still up in the air. Right now i'm looking at it as the PC with auto tune, assuming it works well, still has the advantage over the TB at least until the bike has been out 3 or 4 years at which point all mods will have been tried and maps will exist for most combinations of them.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
|
|
|
|
| daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,686 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 16 Oct 2009 - 15:29 Post title : Re: Tune Boy / Power Comander (Re: daz) | | | Hmmmm.....reading that page i'm liking the TB right now. It does seem to be the way to go for many reasons. but the problem still seems to be that without a tune for your specific mods you're kind stuck. Also it's more expensive than i remembered at $500 USD. (tho cheaper than the PC with the autotune otion) On the other hand it just sounds like a much better solution at the core of it. Sounds like they are saying the stock map and ECH function together with the 02 sensors can see what the PC is doing and readjust for that and in essence remove what the PC has added. Thats worriesome. I was all for the TB before i saw autotune, but i think i'm gonna go back to side with the TB again after reading that....well, assuming it wasn't propaganda. After all, it IS from the TB page.
Also, at RAT they did a group buy for the tuneboy and tubeboy allowed them to get the package for i think a $100 less if they could get something like 20 people to throw in. We should be able to do that between Tbird owners easily as fast as they are joining. By the way, have you noticed this forum seems to be overtaking RAT in how fast the posts are appearing just in the last 2-3 days?!
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
| | Post edited by daz on 16 Oct 2009 - 15:31 |
|
|
|
| Birdy68 | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,352 | | Location | : | Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland |
|
| | Posted : 16 Oct 2009 - 16:21 Post title : Re: Tune Boy / Power Comander (Re: daz) | | | To tell you the truth - I think I'd go with the TB. As you said - especially after reading that link.
I like the data log thingy, and the fact there is no hardware plugged in.
First thing first - collect my Black Bird!
| Birdy68
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!
-x- -x-
more info at Fuelly.com
|
|
|
|
| daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,686 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 16 Oct 2009 - 17:00 Post title : Re: Tune Boy / Power Comander (Re: Birdy68) | | | yeah, it's looking that way. But we should maybe start a thread about doing a group buy. I'll contact them first tho and see if they would be winning.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
|
|
|
|
| Thatch | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/06/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,655 | | Location | : | Savannah, GA, United States |
|
| | Posted : 16 Oct 2009 - 17:06 Post title : Re: Tune Boy / Power Comander (Re: daz) | | | I'd just like to hear from the Tuneboy folks on whether they were moving forward on tbird support or not and of course a time frame on a solution. Of course neither side is supplying that right now.
|
|
|
|
| daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,686 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 16 Oct 2009 - 17:41 Post title : Re: Tune Boy / Power Comander (Re: Thatch) | | | I emailed them and asked about a timeline and whether they would consider a group buy. I'll post here if and when i get an answer.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
|
|
|
|
| Birdy68 | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,352 | | Location | : | Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland |
|
| | Posted : 16 Oct 2009 - 20:50 Post title : Re: Tune Boy / Power Comander (Re: daz) | | | Good man. Positive Karma sent your way...
| Birdy68
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!
-x- -x-
more info at Fuelly.com
|
|
|
|
| daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,686 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 16 Oct 2009 - 21:59 Post title : Re: BRITISH CUSTOMS Exhaust System (Re: Thatch) | | | Thatch wrote:
True, but the more research I do on the PC the less interested I am. I've read quite a few negatives. I've yet to read a 'This product is great!" sort of post concerning the PC with auto tune. Granted it is a relatively new model but it's been out long enough for the HDs for there to be some good reviews, but so far I've not found them. If you have please let me know. |
|
ok, a post at a HD forum i made earlier netted one reply so far. Doesn't sound too promising. Then again maybe it's the model year but i would be suspicious still...
| I can't give you all the technical info. But, I have a friend that has one on a 2008 FLHT and he has had 3 failures in less than 6 months. Power Commanders web site says they are only for the 2009 and newer bikes. Fuel Moto says it will work on the 2008. 3 failures in 6 months ? Hmmm. The problem is the system fails and the bike goes to limp home mode. |
|
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
| | Post edited by daz on 16 Oct 2009 - 22:00 |
|
|
|
| Thatch | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/06/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,655 | | Location | : | Savannah, GA, United States |
|
| | Posted : 26 Oct 2009 - 18:51 Post title : Re: BRITISH CUSTOMS Exhaust System | | | FYI, just spoke with Sean and had some information to relay to you all concerning the BC pipes.
The finished pipes are coming in now. They got in 10 sets, 7 of which were damaged in polishing, 3 are complete. 
Orders will seemingly be filled according to how they came in. Sadly my order is in the 20's. 
The remaining pipes should be finished in 1.5 to 2 weeks time. 
One problem was when the bike was taken to the dyno they forgot the stock pipes so they will have new dyno results but not stock results (for now) 
On a good note though, the Triumph tune apparently works quite well with the new pipes and a power commander is not required. 
...and while the stock exhaust and cat weighs in 33 lbs the BC pipes weigh only 12 lbs. 
The pipes are said to look great and they've done some pictures, going to do another picture shoot tonight and should have a post on the blog in a couple days with pics and information. 
So, there ya go, now for a bit more waiting.
J
|
|
|
|
| FTL40 | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 13/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 1,122 | | Location | : | massachusetts, United States |
|
| | Posted : 26 Oct 2009 - 19:41 Post title : Re: BRITISH CUSTOMS Exhaust System (Re: Thatch) | | | i am in the 40's :( i am in a huge hurry to see/hear these in person
| 2010 tbird 1700 silver (fastest color) BC exhaust, BC airbox removal
|
|
|
|
| Birdy68 | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,352 | | Location | : | Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland |
|
| | Posted : 27 Oct 2009 - 19:37 Post title : Re: BRITISH CUSTOMS Exhaust System (Re: Thatch) | | | Thanks for the news Thatch! We're all waiting - eyes on you! 
| Birdy68
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!
-x- -x-
more info at Fuelly.com
|
|
|
|
| Thatch | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/06/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,655 | | Location | : | Savannah, GA, United States |
|
| | Posted : 05 Nov 2009 - 22:05 Post title : Re: Tune Boy / Power Comander (Re: daz) | | | Well, I got my call from Sean. My pipes are on their way.
The final product looks pretty good, dyno could of been better. "The dyno chart shows a 3 horsepower @ 2,850-4,175 and 7 foot-pounds of torque @ 2,900-4,000". It's hard to make out exactly what is going on with the dyno. Now I was told that the bike only had 12 miles which limited things for them. I'm not terribly bothered by that at this point and I'm still willing to give them a shot and see what they are all about. A sound clip of the finished pipes should be up by tomorrow, but hopefully I'll be hearing them myself shortly.
Link
| | Post edited by Thatch on 05 Nov 2009 - 22:21 |
|
|
|
| STEVEG | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 11/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 54 | | Location | : | Danville, CA., United States |
|
| | Posted : 05 Nov 2009 - 23:59 Post title : Re: Tune Boy / Power Comander (Re: Thatch) | | | Me too! I should have mine by Tues. I spoke with Mickey Cohen today in regards to the dyno he did for the BC pipes and he said the gains are pretty good for a bike that only makes 70 HP...
I asked what I can expect when the power commander is available and he says he is doing custom tunes as I write this. He is using a power commander from another bike and said to expect about a 10% gain when tuned
Sean said his butt dyno feels better then the dyno shows...we shall see on Tues.!
|
|
|
|
| STEVEG | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 11/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 54 | | Location | : | Danville, CA., United States |
|
| | Posted : 06 Nov 2009 - 00:01 Post title : Re: Tune Boy / Power Comander (Re: STEVEG) | | | OH YEAH, THERE IS ONE OF USE IN TEXAS WHO GOT HIS BC PIPES ALREADY CARE TO SHARE YOUR EXPERIENCES WITH US...
|
|
|
|
| Thatch | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/06/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,655 | | Location | : | Savannah, GA, United States |
|
| | Posted : 06 Nov 2009 - 00:10 Post title : Re: Tune Boy / Power Comander (Re: STEVEG) | | | and the sound...
Link
"install video coming soon" ... I do like when companies do this. (we'll see how soon 'soon' is)
Gotta lower the rear now. It's a requirement now.
| | Post edited by Thatch on 06 Nov 2009 - 00:32 |
|
|
|
| mustang66man | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 20/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 100 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 06 Nov 2009 - 13:53 Post title : Re: Tune Boy / Power Comander (Re: STEVEG) | | | Again I ask the question. Why are the Horse Power and torque numbers that Triumph post so different from private party numbers. eg. 70 hp verses 84 hp. Are they being measured at different places?
|
|
|
|
| Thatch | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/06/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,655 | | Location | : | Savannah, GA, United States |
|
| | Posted : 06 Nov 2009 - 13:57 Post title : Re: Tune Boy / Power Comander (Re: mustang66man) | | | | Are they being measured at different places? |
|
Yes. One is from the crank (Triumph's numbers) while the dynos measure at the rear wheel. The difference in numbers is what is lost through the drive train. This is very typical and is really the only way they can get the numbers out on a new bike. Often times the exact configuration of the bike isn't locked down for some time while the engine would of been sorted well before.
|
|
|